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Ez started this one out

Probiotic food is food that contains live bacteria, which is considered beneficial and not harmful to humans. The first example of probiotic food was the introduction of acidophilus to milk, which in some cases helped people who had difficulty digesting milk to be able to tolerate milk better. The specific bacteria used in probiotic food like acidophilus milk is Lactobacillus acidophilus. Such milk was available in the 1920s, and yogurt predates it, but was not specifically supplemented for probiotic effects.

One can still find probiotic food like acidophilus milk. However, the field has opened up to contain other strains of bacteria and other types of food. One naturally thinks of yogurt as a probiotic food, and it may contain lactobacillus acidophilus. One may also see other bacteria listed on probiotic food like yogurt, primarily Lactobacillus bulgaricus, lactobacillus GG, and variants of bifidobacteria.

Most probiotic food is fermented at least partially. A short list of probiotic food choices includes miso soup, some soft cheeses, yogurt products like kefir, sauerkraut and many pickles. Those who feel probiotic food is beneficial are now also interested in prebiotic food. It does not generally contain bacteria but appears to help healthy bacteria grow in the intestines. Prebiotic foods include Jerusalem and regular artichokes, oats, honey, many fruits, and goat’s milk. Human breast milk is also thought to have prebiotic properties that may explain why it so benefits the human newborn.

Many people add probiotic bacteria to their food or take it in capsule form. However, it is unclear how well probiotic bacteria work. Lactobacillus GG, one of the newest probiotics, has shown that it can survive processing by the gut and be especially beneficial to the colon. Not all probiotics have shown evidence that they promote better intestinal health. Some studies do show that eating yogurt during antibiotic treatment may help prevent diarrhea, and is beneficial in reducing risk of yeast infections in women.

Some experts in alternative medicine claim many other benefits to eating probiotic food or using supplements. Such claims include reduction in eczema, cessation or reduction in mental illness, improved immunity, and reduction of childhood allergies and asthma. These claims have yet to be verified, though in most cases few derive harm from probiotic food or supplementation.

Some people may experience mild stomach upset, diarrhea or flatulence during the first few days of probiotic supplementation. Further, some people may be allergic to or intolerant of certain probiotic supplements, or to the probiotic food in which they are presented. However, in most cases, probiotic food is well tolerated, and at the very least, may provide one with better intestinal health. Eating prebiotic foods may also be a good way to promote regularity, and certain prebiotic foods like oats have other benefits, like increasing one’s daily fiber and lowering cholesterol. What are some ways we can store these food for long term?

230gr responded with couple of posts

What are some ways we can store these food for long term?


Yogurt & kefir products must have live bacteria and cannot be pasteurized as most brands are, most sauerkraut and pickles are short cutted by using vinegar and not fermented much by bacteria. Relying on store bought foods for probiotic, beneficial bacteria are problematic and long term storage of acid foods is even more so.

Most vegetables are easy to ferment as they have the needed bacteria already present. Yogurt & kefir are selected strains of natural bacteria that clabber unpasteurized milk. Clabbered milk (curds) and the soft raw cheese made from it where eaten widely in the “old days” and would certainly work, it might be possible to get something like a freeze dried yogurt & kefir culture to store but I have not seen it.
See my post:
Vegetable Fermentation Basics
http://frc4u.org/portal/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?296.last

and then again

When my wife was being treated for an old case of Lymes, the Dr who specializes in such cases put her on probiotics immediately to ramp up her immune system. Although we had used yogurt cultures for GI problems and yeast infections,, I started looking at the whole range of probiotics more seriously then. They have a lot of potential. 230gr

Probiotics Part 1

The human body has an estimated 100 trillion "friendly" bacteria from at least 500 species, referred to as bacterias (probiotics) and they are responsible for several important biological functions. Some of these functions include assisting with digestion, keeping other harmful bacteria at bay and stimulating the immune system. The health benefits of probiotics have been known for at least 100 years and researchers are hopeful that probiotics hold the answer to the growing number of cases of antibiotic resistance and a natural alternatives to treating various health conditions.
• • About 80% of your immune system lives in your gastrointestinal tract.
• • 500 different species of bacteria live inside you.
• • About one hundred trillion bacteria live inside you -- more than TEN TIMES the number of cells you have in your whole body.
• • The weight of these bacteria is about two to three pounds.
• • Some of these bacteria are referred to as "good", but others do not provide any benefit. The ideal balance between them is 85% good, 15% "other".
• This ratio between the "good" and other bacteria can be critical factors determining your optimal health.
Certain studies have proven the many health benefits of probiotics such as the prevention or control of:
• Food and skin allergies in children
• Bacterial vagniosis
• Premature labor in pregnant women
• Inflammatory bowel disease
• Recurrent ear and bladder infections
• Chronic diarrhea
Friendly bacteria also have the ability to :
• manufacture vitamins B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B12, A, and K, and essential fatty acids;
• aid in the digestive process by helping digest lactose (milk sugar) and protein;
• clean the intestinal tract, purify the colon, and promote regular bowel movements;
• increase the number of immune system cells;
• create lactic acid, which balances intestinal pH;
• protect us from environmental toxins such as pesticides and pollutants, reduce toxic waste at the cellular level, and stimulate the repair mechanism of cells;
• help maintain healthy cholesterol and triglyceride levels; and
• break down and rebuild hormones.
• reduce the growth of unfriendly bacteria,
• maintain regular bowel movements,
• maintain cholesterol and triglyceride levels, and
• maintain healthy blood sugar levels.

Experts agree that the absence of bacteria in the intestines is unhealthy. This was apparent in the experiment of laboratory animals that were raised to be germ-free and were frequently sick, exhibited grossly underdeveloped immune systems and vulnerable intestinal tracts.

100 Trillion Bacteria in Your Gut: Learn How to Keep the Good Kind There

You probably don't think about your gut very often but this may make you start--the bacteria in your bowels outnumber the cells in your body by a factor of 10 to one. This gut flora has incredible power over your immune system, which, of course, is your body's natural defense system that keeps you healthy. In other words, the health of your body is largely tied into the health of your gut, and it's hard to have one be healthy if the other is not.
One of the reasons why your gut has so much power has to do with the 100 trillion bacteria--about three pounds worth--that line your intestinal tract. This is an extremely complex living system that aggressively protects your body from outside offenders.
However, if you are eating as many sugars as the typical American (about 175 pounds per year) then you are feeding the "bad" bacteria, which are more likely to cause disease than promote health, rather than promoting the "good" bacteria that help protect you from disease. Exposure to chemicals will also contribute to this disruption in your gut microflora, and over time the imbalance will lead to illness. A large part of the influence of the "bad" bacteria is on the intestinal lining (mucousal barrier) that is over 300 square meters, or about the size of a tennis court.
Beneficial bacteria in your gut can help to boost the immune system, prevent allergic inflammation and food allergy, clear up eczema in children and heal the intestines from a variety of ailments.
Fortunately, you can influence the composition of the good and bad bacteria in your gut by optimizing your diet and supplementing it with a high-quality probiotic, or good bacteria. As written in a report in the October 2003 American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, "probiotics can act as partners of the defense system of the intestine."
The typical American diet is so full of sugar and grains that--although I don't often recommend supplements--nearly everyone can benefit from probiotics. You should look for a high potency, multi-strain variety, which can be found in most health food stores. Since the best type of probiotic to use can become highly specific, you may want to discuss the varieties with an experienced health food store employee.
I recommend probiotics to nearly all of our new patients, as it is a helpful start for their health recovery. This is not a lifetime recommendation, however. Once you are eating the right foods it is generally possible to maintain a healthy bacterial balance in your gut without the use of probiotics. On a side note, probiotics are especially helpful when you are traveling in the event you get an infectious diarrhea. Typically, large doses of a high-quality probiotic--about one-half to one full bottle in one day--are quite useful for a rapid resolution of the diarrhea
By Dr. Joseph Mercola with Rachael Droege

It's great news that the benefits of probiotics are being fully explored, and sought out as an alternative to the antibiotics humans are increasingly becoming resistant to. Although I am not a big fan of nutritional supplementation the way it is currently practiced by most natural medicine clinicians, I have found probiotics (beneficial bacteria) to be an exception. It is the ONLY supplement I recommend for ALL new patients (unless of course they are already on one). I don't believe that they need to stay on it the rest of their lives, but one to three months are usually beneficial until they are able to get their diet improved.
New York Times September 14, 2004

Probiotics Part 2

Probiotics are the only supplement that I advise nearly every patient to start. Once their food choices are cleaned up they can stop it. It is not necessary to take them continuously forever. I do believe it is wise to use one bottle once a year of a good probiotic as most of us are less than perfect with our food choices.
My personal favorite is Flora Source as it is a high potency multi strain product. Most good probiotics are literal miracles for most types of acute diarrhea. My recommended dose is one capsule or ¼ tsp of the powders every 30-60 minutes until the diarrhea is gone. It usually resolves in about four hours. These products are quite impressive.
I am currently in the process of discussion with Italian researchers from Sigma Tao to import what may be the finest human probiotic source available into this country. I hope to have information available later this year
Dr. Mercola

Good Bacteria Fights Flu
Researchers in Japan report that mice given a nasal spray containing the "good'' bacteria Lactobacillus casei found in human intestines were more likely to survive a serious bout of the flu and showed less influenza activity.
These findings suggest nasal administration of L. casei enhances cellular immunity in the respiratory tract and protects against influenza virus infection.
The researchers administered the bacteria to the mice for 3 days, before infecting the animals with the influenza virus. The researchers found that the mice that had received the good bacteria had a 90% lower viral level compared with those not treated with the nasal spray. What's more, 69% of the nasal-spray mice survived their bout with the flu, while only 15% of the untreated animals did.
Clinical and Diagnostic Laboratory Immunology May 2001;8:593-597

History does tell us about the ways different cultures promoted their intestinal health before modern times. In the past, people used fermented foods like yogurt and sauerkraut -- as food preservatives and as support for intestinal and overall health. Fermented foods are part of nearly every traditional culture. As far back as Roman times, people ate sauerkraut because of its taste and benefits to overall health. In ancient Indian society, it became commonplace (and still is) to enjoy a before-dinner yogurt drink called a lassi. At the end of the meal, they'd have a small serving of curd. These Indian traditions were based on the principle of using sour milk as a probiotic delivery system to the body. Other examples are all around us. Bulgarians are known both for their longevity and their high consumption of fermented milk and kefir. In Asian cultures, pickled fermentations of cabbage, turnips, eggplant, cucumbers, onions, squash and carrots still exist today.

Total health begins in the gut so if your GI tract is not in optimal health, then your overall health will be compromised. I have also learned the value of fermented foods that are loaded with good bacteria. They give the body similar benefits as consuming a whole bottle of good bacteria, but at a fraction of the cost. One of the best ways and least expensive to achieve this would be to obtain raw milk and convert it to kefir. Kefir is very easy to make. All you have to do is put one half packet of the kefir start granules in a quart of raw milk at room temperature and leave it out over night. By the time you wake up in the morning you will likely have kefir. If it hasn’t obtained the consistency of yogurt you might want to set out a bit longer and then store it in the fridge.
The quart of kefir has far more active bacteria than you can possibly purchase in any probiotics supplement and it is very economically as you can reuse the kefir from the original quart of milk about ten times before you need to start a new culture pack so one starter package of kefir granules can convert about 50 gallons of milk to kefir.
Kefir is one of the secrets of health of the long aged eastern Europeans and I can guarantee you that they did not use store purchased pasteurized milk to make their kefir. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2003/10/18/bacteria-gut.aspx

Foods Containing Probotic Bacteria
Some commonly used bacteria (Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Streptococcus thermophilus, & Lactobacillus acidophilus)
in products milk:
Kefir- a fermented milk drink that originated in the Caucasus region by a combination of bacteria and yeasts ,sour, carbonated, slightly alcoholic beverage, with a consistency similar to thin yoghurt, with 1 to 2 percent alcohol.
Yoghurt- bacterial fermentation of milk; beverage originally that can be slightly salty or sweet or, in the United States, have added pectin or gelatin to artificially create thickness and creaminess.
yoghurt cheese- strained through a cloth or paper filter, traditionally made of muslin, to remove the whey, giving a much thicker consistency, and a distinctive, slightly tangy taste salted and dried and rolled into balls.

Some fermented products containing similar lactic acid bacteria include:
Pickled vegetables such as Sauerkraut, pickled cucumbers, onions, garlic, red beets, carrots, kohlrabi, and rutabaga.
Kimchi- traditional Korean pickled dishes made of vegetables with varied seasonings; most common is the spicy cabbage, radish, scallions, cucumber, and onion.
Pao cai- Chinese fermented cabbage, sweet and sour taste.
Zha cai- a type of pickled mustard stem (poc choy), originating from China, with a crunchy, yet tender texture and a spicy, sour, and salty taste.
Fermented bean paste such as:
tempeh- Javanese, made by a natural culturing and controlled fermentation process that binds soybeans into a cake form.
miso-traditional Japanese seasoning produced by fermenting rice, barley and/or soybeans, with salt
doenjang- traditional Korean fermented soybean paste.
[b]Soy sauce- [/b]a condiment made from fermenting soybeans with the molds Aspergillus oryzae and Aspergillus soyae along with roasted grain, water, and salt.
Kombucha- a fermented medicinal tea symbiosis of Acetobacter (acetic acid bacteria) and yeast convert the tea into a bubbly fluid that has a palatable balance between sweet and sour and contains alcohol 0.5% to 1.5% depending on anaerobic brewing time progressing to very acidic pH 3.0 when finished.


BACTERIAL CULTURE 13 BILLION ORGANISMS- Serving Size 1 Servings Per Container 100 $19.99
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=VS-2164
A good probotic supplement is similar to the above with 10 to 12 different bacteria. I have tried to list the most common and what they do to help you choose.

• Bifidobacterium bifidum- are predominant in the gut flora of breast-fed babies, and administred to infants suffering from diarrhea, displaces the proteolytic bacteria that cause the disease, prevents the colonization of invading pathogenic bacteria by attaching to the intestinal wall, crowding out and taking nutrients from these unfriendly bacteria and yeast, enhance the assimilation of minerals such as iron, calcium, magnesium and zinc.
• Bifidobacterium breve- colonize the immature bowel very effectively and is associated with fewer abnormal abdominal signs and better weight gain in VLBW infants, able to perform partial breakdown of inulin colon.
• Bifidobacterium infantis- an important organism shown to stimulate production of immunomodulating agents such as cytokines. Bacteriocidal activity is also observed against such pathogens as Clostridia, Salmonella, and Shigella.
• Bifidobacterium lactis- often found in yogurt that is known to help stimulate immune responses, shortened oro-fecal gut transit time in elderly, and appears able to reduce the duration of diarrhea and help alleviate constipation.
• Bifidobacterium longum- blocks the growth of harmful bacteria, and boosts the immune system, preventing the colonization of invading pathogenic bacteria by attaching to the intestinal wall and crowding out unfriendly bacteria and yeast, ferments sugars into lactic acid among the first to colonize the sterile digestive tract of newborns and predominates in breast-fed infants alleviation of lactose intolerance symptoms (Jiang et al., 1996); immune stimulation (Takahashi et al., 1998); and cancer prevention.
• Enterococcus Faecium- proven efficacy in the treatment of irritable bowel syndrome conditions such as diarrhea, boosting the digestive ability which in turn helps to promote a strong immune system, nutritional support of diarrheal diseases, especially in cases where pathogenic microbes, such as rotavirus, invade the bowel, able to significantly lower LDL cholesterol and observed in Cheddar cheeses
• Lactobacillus acidophilus- a producer of the enzyme amylase (a carbohydrate-digesting enzyme) that is known to improve digestion and reduce lactose intolerance and constipation part of the normal vaginal flora, helps to control the growth of the fungus Candida albicans, thus helping to prevent vaginal yeast infections, as well as, oral or gastrointestinal Candidiasis infections, including improved gastrointestinal function, a boosted immune system, provides relief from indigestion and diarrhea may be helpful reducing serum cholesterol levels. A University of Nebraska study found that feed supplemented with L. acidophilus and fed to cattle resulted in a 61% reduction of Escherichia coli
• Lactobacillus brevis- is a lactic acid producing organism important in the synthesis of vitamins D and K.
• Lactobacillus bulgaricus- is one of several bacteria used for the production of yogurt. It is also found in other naturally fermented products helpful to sufferers of lactose intolerance, whose digestive systems lack the enzymes to break down lactose to simpler sugars, stimulate production of interferon and tumor necrosis factor, thus establishing a potential role in modulating the immune system.
• Lactobacillus casei- is a lactic acid producer that assists in the propagation of desirable bacteria in the natural fermentation of beans, the beans contained inulin and causing flatulence upon digestion, is present in ripening Cheddar cheese and naturally fermented Sicilian green olives and may be effective in alleviation of gastrointestinal pathogenic bacterial diseases inhibit the growth of pathogenic bacteria in the small intestine more likely to survive a serious bout of the flu and showed less influenza activity.
• Lactobacillus plantarum- found in many fermented food products antimicrobial substances produced have shown significant effect on Gram positive and Gram negative bacteriam, tested clinically for its effect on irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). In both studies, subjects showed a decrease in IBS symptoms and can break down protein into usable nutrients (amino acids). reduced Rats given L. plantarum in addition to E. coli showed lower counts of E. coli in the small intestine and caecum (where the large intestine begins)
• Lactobacillus rhamnosus-inhibits the growth of most harmful bacteria in the intestine. It is used as a natural preservative in yogurt and other dairy products to extend the shelf life. first successfully used to treat gastrointestinal carriage of vancomycin-resistant enterococci (VRE) in renal patients Immune stimulation, improves digestive health, reduces antibiotic-associated diarrhea , inhibit the growth of streptococci and clostridia.
• Lactobacillus salivarius ability to help break down undigested protein and disengage the toxins produced by protein putrefactions, found to be a potentially effective probiotic against H. pylori. a leading cause of ulcers.
• Lactobacillus sporogenes- helps enhance your intestinal health and provides back-up for sporadic intestinal discomfort.
• Saccharomyces boulardii- nourish and support a healthy intestinal wall, the front line for the body's defense system, significant reduction in the symptoms of acute gastroenteritis in children and of diarrhea in adults, even diarrhea predominant irritable bowel syndrome, Escherichia coli and Salmonella typhimurium, two pathogenic bacteria often associated with acute infectious diarrhea, were shown to strongly adhere to mannose on the surface of S. boulardii via lectin receptors (adhesins). Once the invading microbe is bound to S. boulardii, it is prevented from attaching to the brush border and is then eliminated from the body during the next bowel movement, induces the secretion of Immunoglobulin A.
• Streptococcus thermophilus- is used, along with Lactobacillus spp., as a starter culture for the manufacture of several important fermented dairy foods, including yogurt and Mozzarella cheese, alleviates symptoms of lactose intolerance and other gastrointestinal disorders, may have immunomodulatory and anticarcinogenic effects.


Ez Responded

I have been experimenting with some different probiotics. I take allot of antibiotics and I can tell it has a negative affect on my body.

here are a few thing I have found.

Real probiotics are hard to find everything these days has been pasteurized Thus killing all the bacteria good and bad.

here is what I'm using Certain yogurts, other cultured dairy products that have not been pasteurized.


Now I'm going one step further to work with Prebiotics. and here is a few things iv been trying to focus on eating. Whole grains, onions, bananas, garlic, honey, leeks, artichokes.


here is my goals.

improve gastrointestinal health; may improve calcium absorption, systemic immunity

Its been a few weeks now and I can report I'm seeing allot of positive results. I can actually tell a difference in the way my body feels.


I will ad to this post in a few more weeks as I introduce more probiotics and prebiotics.

230gr finished it up with this one.

My experience Probotics is largely based on yogurt which my mother made and gave to us because “it was good for us” and, with a little vanilla or cinnamon and sugar added, it was tasty too. Eventually, I realized that when I had an outbreak of fever blisters, yogurt would help make them go away. I did not know anything about bacteria like Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Streptococcus thermophilus, or Lactobacillus acidophilus back then but just that it helped somehow. Now every time I am very ill and or get a dose of antibiotics, I eat live culture Dannon or, if I can get her to brew some up, homemade yogurt (preferably with raw goat milk).
I have experimented with Kombucha but, beyond depressing blood sugar spikes, not enough to report benefits yet. If you get it while still foamy and bubbly, still a bit sweet but yet tangy, it is tasty. Leave it go too long does it ever get vinegary! Which is what we use it for.

The 2nd post is related and deals with daily amount of protiens needed each day.

230gr started this thread

How much meat or other complete protein do you need daily?

The standard method used by nutritionists to estimate our minimum daily balanced protein requirement is to multiply the body weight in pounds by .37. This is the number of grams of protein that should be the daily minimum. According to this method, a person weighing 150 lbs. should eat 55 grams of protein per day, a 200-pound person should get 74 grams, and a 250-pound person, 92 grams.
Under EOTWAWKI conditions, where so much muscle power will be used, this amount could increase. We might consider how much protein do athletes need? To figure out your needs, simply multiply your weight in pounds by one of the following:
Sedentary adult 0.4
Active adult 0.4-0.6
Growing athlete 0.6-0.9
Adult building muscle mass 0.6-0.9
(taken from Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook)

For a 150 pound male, this would be 0.6 for a total of 90 grams of protein per day or almost 13 oz of meat, poultry or fish. Enough Cereal grain for 90 grams would require over 11 cups!
For a 115 pound, teenage, female 0.7 for a total of 80.5 grams of protein per day would be good.

While you can get your complete protein requirements from most foods, it is far richer in some:
Meat, poultry and fish 7 grams per ounce
Beans, dried peas, lentils 7 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
One large egg 7 grams
Milk 8 grams per cup
Bread 4 grams per slice
Cereal 4 grams per 1/2 cup
Vegetables 2 grams per 1/2 cup

An ounce of meat or fish has approximately 7 grams of protein.
Beef
Hamburger patty, 4 oz – 28 grams protein
Steak, 6 oz – 42 grams
Most cuts of beef – 7 grams of protein per ounce

Chicken
Chicken breast, 3.5 oz - 30 grams protein
Chicken thigh – 10 grams (for average size)
Drumstick – 11 grams
Wing – 6 grams
Chicken meat, cooked, 4 oz – 35 grams

Fish
Most fish fillets or steaks are about 22 grams of protein for 3 ½ oz (100 grams) of cooked fish, or 6 grams per ounce
Tuna, 6 oz can - 40 grams of protein

Pork
Pork chop, average - 22 grams protein
Pork loin or tenderloin, 4 oz – 29 grams
Ham, 3 oz serving – 19 grams
Ground pork, 1 oz raw – 5 grams; 3 oz cooked – 22 grams
Bacon, 1 slice – 3 grams
Canadian-style bacon (back bacon), slice – 5 – 6 grams

Eggs and Dairy
Egg, large - 6 grams protein
Milk, 1 cup - 8 grams
Cottage cheese, ½ cup - 15 grams
Yogurt, 1 cup – usually 8-12 grams, check label
Soft cheeses (Mozzarella, Brie, Camembert) – 6 grams per oz
Medium cheeses (Cheddar, Swiss) – 7 or 8 grams per oz
Hard cheeses (Parmesan) – 10 grams per oz

Incomplete Proteins (better mixed and matched of grain, beans & nuts)
amount of of grain you need to eat per day for enough useable protein
Pounds required for 100% of protein RDA by limiting Amino Acid
Barley………………………….. 0.5lb
Wheat, Hard Red Sprng…….0.5lb
Wheat, Hard Red Winter…..0.6lb
Egg Noodles Enrich Dry…... 0.5lb
Rice, Brown………..……...... 0.7lb
Wheat, Duram…….....…….. 0.7lb
Rice, White …….………….. 0.8lb
Corn, Dry …………..……..….1.0lb
Millet…………………..….…..1.0 lb

Beans (including soy)
Tofu, ½ cup 20 grams protein
Tofu, 1 oz, 2.3 grams
Soy milk, 1 cup - 6 -10 grams
Most beans (black, pinto, lentils, etc) about 7-10 grams protein per half cup of cooked beans
Soy beans, ½ cup cooked – 14 grams protein
Split peas, ½ cup cooked – 8 grams

Nuts and Seeds
Almonds, ¼ cup – 8 grams
Peanuts, ¼ cup – 9 grams
Pecans, ¼ cup – 2.5 grams
Sunflower seeds, ¼ cup – 6 grams
Pumpkin seeds, ¼ cup – 19 grams
Flax seeds – ¼ cup – 8 grams

eeyore responded to it

excellent info, helps with planning